On this episode of Mind the Gap, Tom Sherrington and Emma Turner are joined by Bennie Kara – former teacher, consultant, and author of Nuthall’s Hidden Lives of Learners in Action – to explore what learning really looks like beneath the surface of the classroom. Drawing on Graham Nuthall’s seminal research, Bennie unpacks the idea of the three worlds of the classroom (the public, social, and private worlds of learning) and explains why observation alone can never tell us what pupils have actually learned. The conversation ranges across deep listening, talk and oracy, prior knowledge and experience, misconceptions, and the limits of short lesson drop-ins, with practical reflections on how teachers can better surface pupils’ thinking without being overwhelmed by workload. Bennie also connects Nuthall’s insights to contemporary debates around curriculum design, inclusion, equity, and long-term memory, arguing that learning is shaped as much by peer interaction and prior experience as by what teachers plan and deliver. It’s a thoughtful, challenging episode that invites leaders and teachers alike to rethink what counts as evidence of learning – and where to look for it. Bennie Kara started her career as an English teacher in the inaugural cohort of Teach First in 2003. After 20 years' experience in education as a teacher and former deputy headteacher specialising in teaching, learning and the curriculum, she now works as a leadership coach in schools as a speaker and trainer on topics such as DEI, teaching and learning, and effective curriculum construction. She is the author of three books focusing on diversity, equity and inclusion in education. Graham Nuthall's work and research, as recorded in The Hidden Lives of Learners, sits in the intersection of her interests. She is particularly interested in the way he explores the social construct of the classroom, as well as the ways in which identity, experience and interest play into long term learning and memory. She strongly believes that effective pedagogy is rooted in the needs of students and is informed by research. You can order here new book here: https://www.hachettelearning.com/teaching-strategies/nuthall-s-hidden-lives-of-learners-in-actionTom Sherrington has worked in schools as a teacher and leader for 30 years and is now a consultant specialising in teacher development and curriculum & assessment planning. He regularly contributes to conferences and CPD sessions locally and nationally and is busy working in schools and colleges across the UK and around the world. Follow Tom on X ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@teacherhead⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Emma Turner FCCT is a school improvement advisor, education consultant, trainer and author. She has almost three decades of primary teaching, headship and leadership experience across the sector, working and leading in both MATs and LAs. She works nationally and internationally on school improvement including at single school level and at scale. She has a particular interest in research informed practice in the primary phase, early career development, and CPD design. Follow Emma on X ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@emma_turner75⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠This podcast is sponsored by Teaching WalkThrus and produced in association with Haringey Education Partnership. Find out more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://walkthrus.co.uk/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://haringeyeducationpartnership.co.uk/⁠